One Against an Army

Xena deters the entire Persian army BY HERSELF, and Gabby stares death in the face with steady resolve?! MEANWHILE  Hayley & Justine discuss the Persian Empire and Persian Army of the 5th century, BCE! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Recalling. Recall. Ricola, Recola, Ricola, Ricola. Hello and welcome. We are here at In a Time of Ancient Gods, the Xena podcast, where we are reviewing every episode of the 90s TV show Xena Warrior Princess, and we are researching the myths, the heroes, and themes we meet in the Xena verse. Oh my gosh. I'm Justine, and my dearest co-host with me today is Haley.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

That's me. I can't tell you how excited I am to be at this episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Oh, this is amazing. We are really relaxed. We're pleased. We're grounded. We've been through it all and we're on the other side of the portal. Yep. Before we launch, I do want to plug our Patreon where we post screenshots from our episodes, our research references for every episode, and little mini sodes with extra research. You can find a link to our Patreon in the description of this episode, or you can visit our website. Where is it, Haley? Where can they go?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

They can go to in a timeofancient gods.com. Don't forget that.com. Otherwise, it's gonna direct you to a Google search instead. Well, you could probably click through there. We might be at the top of the list, but you probably are gonna find it that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

That's commals is direct.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Get you right there.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Huge thank you to all of our Patreon members. You guys are amazing. We really appreciate your support. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

What have you been up to, Haley? What's new?

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Ugh, all sorts of great things. Um I have been watching a whole lot of ER. You and me before. Fully hooked. Fully hooked. I cannot get enough. What season are you on? I'm on season three.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Oh, good. You're you're trucking. Great.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

I'm trucking right along. Every night with dishes, it's one to two episodes. Get through it. Yeah. It's been so great. I don't know where the time goes. Well, it's laundry. You know how it is. Everything kind of comes in at the end of the day. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I'm watching two to three episodes a night. I'm on season 15. We're we're in ER.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

We're gonna have to be circling back around pretty soon. But I'm enjoying all the dynamics. I'm enjoying Carol and the um charge nurse politics, her ability to handle any situation that comes up. Her the brightness of her smile, but also her seriousness. I'm enjoying all of that.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I love Carol. I think she's she was one of my favorites. I love her deadpan delivery of everything. Yes. So same. Calming. And like you never, you never she's completely unflappable. Like she's unflappable now.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Well, I'm flushing. No, I'm not. I'm unflappable. You can't flap me.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I had dinner, or not dinner. I had lunch with my dad yesterday and he described someone as unflappable. Who was it? We gotta add them to the list. I know. I was like, well, you know, I have a list of unflappable people.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Let me get out my list.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Russell, Russell. What are we talking about? I don't know. Anyway, it'll come to me in the middle of something. Tell me later. Amazing. Yeah. Well, I've also just been watching a lot of ER, hanging with friends, you know, trying to stay sane in these insane times. Totally. Wishing you all the best, safety and love, and just lots of Xena.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yeah, lots of Xena. Find find your calming spot, your little escape to the 1995 film.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah, the 1995 and also just like the classical world brings me a lot of calm. Yeah. I just, yeah, I recently finished the Odyssey and now I'm rereading the Iliad, and it really, it uh it grounds me.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

It's grounding. Yeah, we all need our little space where it's not right now.

unknown 4:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

And that's where we are today. We've come to this episode. I don't know. What have you been up to besides ER? Anything pertinent and exciting?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Nothing really pertinent. I took a cool virtual class through the Philosophical Research Society in LA. It was on the history of Gnostic scrying and mirror gazing. So that was red. You can go to their website. They're always having cool virtual classes. If you guys are into the metaphysical, check them out.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Oh, that sounds great. All right, team, let's just dive in. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

We've been waiting for this for a long time. We are in episode or in season three, One Against an Army, written by Gene O'Neill and Noreen Tobin. Gene and Noreen were a writing team who wrote a few episodes in the Hercaverse, but this is their only Xena specific episode. So welcome, Gene and Noreen. Welcome. We're delighted to have you here. And it was directed by Paul Lynch, and this is his first episode in the Xenaverse. But we're going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

They're telsing him right in, right after uh Illusia.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, you know, it's like Oli Sasoni, he's just made his giant grand exit. Yes. And now we gotta get a crop of newcomers. We're excited about it. Yeah, it's it's like when George Clooney left ER.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

It's just like that. I'm not there yet, but I know that it's just like it. I can't believe he's leaving.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

It's it'll be okay. You'll be fine. There you'll be a lot of swarthy young gentlemen to step in.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Great, perfect. All right. All right, I'm ready for it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

So that's where we are. So yeah, Paul Lynch. Um, he directed a bunch of episodes of So Weird also. Do you remember the show?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Oh, yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah, it was so weird. Disney Channel, a teen. She kept running into paranormal troubles. Uh, anyway. And originally aired in February 9th, 1998. Would you like to hear the IMDB description? I would. I would love it. Okay. Please. When the Persian army lands, intending to capture Greece, they expect easy pickings, but Zina and an injured Gabrielle are on their way.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Okay. I'm gonna give that an A plus. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

I would say this is good. Zina's in the room. I think the punchy. The zero easy pickings, really funny. Great. And it captures the whole zeitgeist of the show of Zena. Yeah, Zina's here, it'll be fine. Mm-hmm. Yep. We're on board.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Great job. IMDB.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Who would you say is the big bad?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Well, probably the Persian Empire.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

I would argue that it's unattainable healthcare.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Oh, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

That's her eye went.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Contemporary. Well, yeah. All right, all right. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

And also, yeah, and the Greco-Persian war. Because you know, everyone everyone's. War is never good. War is never good. Oh, maybe also Xena when she yells at Argo. Didn't like that. Very white fang of her. Yeah, it was awful. Do we have any gods in this episode?

SPEAKER_02 7:29

No, I think they've abandoned the Greeks and the Persians at this point.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

This is a like a very anti-magic because even later we see Xena trying to kind of reclaim powers she'd developed, and she's not able to do it. So it's an interesting to go from this totally surreal, you know, it's all gods, it's in the mind. We're in like a metaphysical, occult land, just land in this like a physical plop. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

We're in a physical plop right now.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Like a frog in mud. Although we do have see Gabby has some oracular uh moments. Oh, that's true. We do have a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Villagers. Any villagers?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

I didn't notice any present villagers.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

No, I feel like they were defined by the lack of villagers.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

A war-torn region, absent of villagers.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Do we have a Dr. Xena?

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Oh my gosh, do we? She never leaves. She's there the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

She is she is on call.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

I mean, for us to, this is our ER moment in this universe. We are seeing all sorts of procedures that we're gonna remember forever. I could do that if I ever have a shot in the pith and arrow.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Exactly. And we will discuss it in depth. Don't worry, everyone. And she's she is just like chewing up leaves. She's mushing them together in a pot. She's making as many poultices as she can go.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

She's heating branding irons. She's ready for whatever. Her entire medical training is gonna come into practice in this episode.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Except, yeah, no childbirth, but we've seen that before.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

She hasn't done the obstetrics in this episode, but that was her previous rotation.

unknown 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

No, she's definitely in the ER. Is there a cult watch episode? No, no cults, no dungeons. Love interest is 100% Gabrielle in this. Yes. There's like so much romantic.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

We didn't see a single deep V in the entire episode.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

No, no, no, no. So we know this is a Gabby focused ep. There's a ton of romantic talk. There's like some of the sweetest conversations and dialogues between them. It's so romantic.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

The number of moments that I marked as potential fave Gabby moments. Oh, oh, really? Top number. Really?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

I think this is gonna be an interesting conversation between you and me about this episode. Okay. So what did we research today?

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Oh well, I researched uh the Persian Empire and the Persian Army in the 5th century BCE.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

What about you? Well, I did a little research that we'll talk about on Patreon. That's great. So I'm gonna be talking a little bit about the Battle of Marathon. And yeah, we'll talk about that later.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Later. Secretly.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Okay, episode recap. Here we go. All right. It's an interesting one. And this feel episode to me really felt like it could have been a play. Like it would have been a really good black box theater with this like impending threat of the Persian army kind of building up to this big battle scene at the end.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

And if you and I were directing it, there would have been so many puppets and some Barbie dolls being thrown on the screen.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Puppet arrows, puppet soldiers. I mean, when there's only two of you on stage, you've got to use a lot of puppets to make it work.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

You really do. And the audience loves it.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

They love it. All you need is a few pairs of stockings and some unitards, some old clothes you can stuff in there. Yeah. And just yeah, throw them on the ground. Just throw them on the ground. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Great.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

So we open on a beautiful sunny day in Greece. Oh my gosh. It's an idyllic day. It's a peaceful field. Everything's green. It's like you're welcome, waking up on a golden morning.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Oh, and we're no longer by the sea. We're no longer in the land of Illusia. Instead, we're we are the wind blowing Gabby's bangs.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Absolutely. We have classic Gabby here. She has her bangs, her pulled back top and then top hair, and then, you know, half ponytail situation. Classic Gabby outfit.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

We're back. We're ready for the comfort zone. We are.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

She's no longer in a mute, neutral toned sack. She's wearing her regular Gabby outfit. And she seems healthy.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

So we're horrible have been forgotten. Yes. Exactly. So Gabby is she's determined to learn Gina's uh Gina, learn Zina's jump spin move. And we see her like reving up to do a run jump. And then we cut to Zina looking very annoyed, which is hilarious. And we see that Gabby has her staff held between two posts, kind of like a gymnastics bar. And then she does a running jump, swings around, lands, and she does her little like hoo-wee battle cry while she's doing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

We are already ready. We can see that this is gonna be like kind of a fun episode where there's not a lot of tension between them. There's like light, you know, teasing, but nothing else. Yeah. So she does the flip, then she gets her out her little teeny Xena doll, which I think would be a great craft for anyone interested in participating in a crafting on your own crafting session. Yeah, make your toothpicks Xena doll with some toothpicks and some rags.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah, pull some hair out of your own hairbrush and really, really make that effigy safe.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

If you have blonde hair, just put some ink on it, it's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, get a sharpie. Or make a Gabby doll. But but Gabby had it had been tucked in her cleavage, so she pulls this like tiny little Xena doll out of her cleavage. It was great. And then yeah, she flips it around, she shows how to do all the cool tricks, and then Zena's just taunting her and uses the doll as a toothpick. Hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Great. We're just loving it. Gabby's talking about all the math. She's been studying trajectory speed. She's doing her usual, like she's the scholar and she's figured this out. And Zina's like, you haven't got the basic thing. What foot do you start on?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah. Because Zina's like, you gotta feel it in your body. You can't just look at it on paper.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Intuition, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Oh, so important.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Just like Dr. Zina. She just knows what to do. Okay, I'll let you go.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Oh, Dr. Xina. So uh yeah, but so Zina says you gotta figure out, like, you know, which foot to start on. You don't have it all. And then Gabby tries to jump again without the stick. Uh-oh. And of course she jumps and lands poorly and sprains her ankle. And I read that Gabby really did sprain, or well, Renee O'Connor sprained her ankle in this. I guess there was like an accident with a stunt guy, and he maybe broke his leg and like fell on her. Oh no. So they wrote it into the show that she was actually injured.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Oh wow. Well, they did a great job. I would never have suspected that she was actually injured.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I mean, they're great actors all around.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah. And what quick writing. Well, yeah. So now she's got, and we can see in close-up, it does look like a horrifying sprain, but not yet, I guess. We've got one more trick before that happens.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Okay. So we're walking on through the forest. Gabby is like too proud to let Zina look at her ankle. Uh Zina keeps taunting her about just like trying stuff and failing.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

She's like really homey. It's like you tried something and failed. It happens. Which is Gabby's tough love. Yeah. Gabby's just trying to like walk it off and pretend like nothing's wrong. And Zina's like, I'm not gonna tell you that you shouldn't have tried the flip. And I loved Gabby saying, You'll work it in under her breath as she walks along.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

It is so great. Their dialogue in this is really, really, really good. Great job, writers. It's so good. Yeah, it completely just it's everything we love about the show. Is that their relationship is so natural and authentic. Okay, so then Xina grabs her chakra, yells for Gabby to hit the decks, and Gabby jumps to the floor, which is great. Listening to Zina, great job, Gabby.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

And then we're so on board. It's like everything's going just how we want it to, except for the sprain so far. So yeah, she jumps down.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Zina chakrams, and then the chakram slices Gabby's boot off. Yes. So that she can actually take a look at it. And Dr. Xina has arrived.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

I know. And in all caps, Dr. Zina. We love this dynamic. We're home.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

And we learn that Zina actually was the first person to think of elevation and ice for a sprain. Wow. She came up with this. Put it in the history books, folks. Right here.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Zina's got it.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

They hobble over to the like icy riverside, and Gabby's grumbling that Zina owes her a pair of boots. And then as they're as they're down by the water, a stranger scampers up to them from out of nowhere. It's a youth, a sandy-haired youth. It is a sandy-haired youth. And he tells them to run for their lives. And Zina's just like, why?

unknown 16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Just slow down. Tell me why.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

And then she's using both her hands to cup water onto Gabby's leg instead of just like putting Gabby's foot into the river, which I'm not gonna second guess because it's Dr. Zina.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

It's Dr. Zina. She knows what's going on. It's like alternating ice and warm is what's happening there, you see.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Okay. Got it, got it, got it. So this guy reveals that there's a huge army with a fleet of tall ships heading that way. And they've already laid waste to Marathon, where this guy is from. And this guy is Phidipp Phidipides? Phidippides. Yeah, Phidipides. And he was a real guy. Oh. He ran the first marathon. Um, and I'll talk about it more on the Patreon.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

This info really catches Zina's attention. And she can tell from his description that this is the Persian army. They're fierce opponents. And if this army reaches Athens, then all of Greece will be subject to Persian rule.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Absolutely. It's a terrifying prospect. Should I tell you a little bit about the Persians? Is this a good time? Do you want to know? So I do. I do. I do. Oh my gosh. So they're worried. They're worried that Athens is going to be lost and all of Greece will be lost if the Persians take over. So I was wondering to myself, as somebody who doesn't often think about the Greeks and Persians in military conflict, what were the Persians? I think about that all the time. Well, maybe some of our listeners are on board. I was like, I don't usually well, I was wondering why were the Persians there? I knew they had an empire. Yeah. How do they get to Greece? What are they doing there at Marathon and later Thermopylae? Yeah. So I was thinking, what's the just general reputation? So the Persian army in early 5th century Greece was actually probably pretty well known. So Athenians would have known about the Persians. They were the most powerful empire of their time, and indeed the largest empire ever until the Roman Empire in the first and second centuries A.D. And so they were very, very powerful. They stretched it all the way from the Indus River Valley to the Danube in Europe. So a huge amount of land control. Also the western Himalayas to Northeast Africa and the Saharan Desert. So like two million square miles of territory that they were in control of, basically. They were centered in modern day western Iran in Farce or Persepolis. And that's near the Zagros Mountains. And I calculated, I did a Google search. It's about two months just straight walking from Oh, it's two months.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yeah, straight walking two months. So if you're like not taking a boat but walking.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah, if you were walking around to Greece from that region, it would have taken about two months without stopping. If you were walking 12 hours a day, to a pretty long distance. And uh they composed this territory primarily through conquest and diplomacy. They had a ruling elite that was composed basically of Persians, um, especially those related to the royal family. And in their court, it was really splendid and showed their extraordinary power. So the king wore an imperial purple tunic, he had gold embroidery, um, a beautiful crown. Uh but the city itself also reflected the riches of the empire. So you had many people from different regions of the empire, it's really ethnically diverse. So you had different ethnicities from within the region around uh modern day Iran, but also Nubians and Jews and Greeks, people from all around the different regions that they controlled, worked there in part as dependent workers on the state called Kurtash. So they were kind of laborers and members of the city who worked and then were paid by the state. So this is a really powerful empire with a lot of different participants. So, how do we get to Marathon and later Thermopylae? So the empire had expanded a lot under Xerx Xerxes' father Darius, who spent a lot of time kind of expanding the reach. What year are we in? So right now we're kind of the late uh sixth century BCE, so approaching the last decades. They had by that point, so Darius, I believe, died of 486 or something, so shortly after this. But he had spent a lot of his effort in commanding and personally also carrying out these uh uh expansions. And you can see in one case that uh comes up and is particularly relevant to our story today that this is not just conquest, but also through reputation and through the kind of power of threatslash offers of protection. So throughout their empire, they established what were called satrapies, which are like governmental districts under the control of the Persian satrapes or governors. Those were often people related directly to the royal family. And those satrapies were in Ionia, the Aegean ports, Aegean Peninsula, and also parts of northern Greece already by the end of the 6th century BCE, so around 510. Still pretty distant from Athens, but already kind of incurring down into that Grecian world.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

So in 507, Athens was experiencing some. Some tumults, some like internal disruptions and a threat from Sparta. And allegedly, according to Herodotus, they sent diplomats out to Persia to create an alliance. Now, if you're Persia and you control almost the entire known world, that's not really a one-to-one alliance. And so the Persians responded to the city.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

And then also at sorry. Yeah. At this point in um Greece was not this like unified country. Right. It's just an entire big expansion of city-states that are often warring and fighting between each other. So there is a benefit to allying yourself with Persia rather than allying yourself with Sparta or anywhere else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Right, exactly. So Persia's a big attraction. They're trying to kind of get the scary empire on their side against Sparta. And Persia's obviously looking and thinking, okay, Athens is one city-state in this area that we're trying to control.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Okay. So their response is basically, literally, at least in Herodotus' words, if the Athenians give King Darius earth and water, he will establish an alliance with them. And there's some debate over what that actually means. But in general, it seems to have conveyed like if you become a territory of Persia. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

It sounds like if you give them land and port, then you will get their protection. Yeah, exactly, which makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah. And within the empire, you know, the satrapies and their governors would collect tribute and military personnel to serve the empire as well. But yeah, that kind of claim of possession or sovereignty over that area was part of it. Probably.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

And if they didn't agree to that, they would have to go. So Herodotus isn't super clear on whether the Athenians agreed or didn't agree. It seems likely that they may have agreed to those terms. Um, but then we don't know if they ever sent tribute. And maybe they were just hoping that the knowledge that they were aligned with the Persian Empire would be enough to kind of weaken the Spartan resolve.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah, it seems like from my brief studies, it seems like within the Athenian politics, there were so many different, so many different voices, so many different opinions. Like so many people did want to align with the Persians, so many didn't. Like there was no unified um decisions for the city-state on what they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yeah, I think that seems very aligned with what I've read too, that they're like you could send a representative, but who knows whether the the deal that they would broker would be acceptable to the city-state. Yeah. So by the 490s, the Ionian Revolt had was kind of in full heat, 499 to 493 BCE. And uh the Athenians participated in that revolt against the Persian Empire. And they likely didn't give any tribute before that as well. So they had kind of taken on the side against the Persian Empire. Now, I think in more traditional accounts of the Athenian relationships with the Persian Empire, Marathon and Thermopylae were seen as the Persian Empire trying to attack democracy because of its freedom and its kind of idealist rule.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

It's it's not that at all. It's I the propaganda that was spun after all of these, all of these wars and the Greco-Persian wars is so insane. I mean, I'll talk about it more in the Patreon, but it's really, really, really interesting. Yeah. And how and how religion was used, how um just everything is is spun in such an interesting way and really it's just so eye-opening that like we that we all do the same things today. You know, everything just thinking about like January Sixers and how like all of the propaganda around that is just totally you know spun around, is just uh it's just all wild.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah, people choose a side and then information gets lost or whatever. The story that becomes most appealing gets at the center of the story that gets told. Yes, you know, to those.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Great way to put it.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah. Thank you. So so yeah, so we have what is very likely, at least according to one scholar that I read. Um, let's see if I can pull up his name very swiftly, Waters, who wrote on ancient Persia and also on Xerxes and the Oath Takers. So Waters argues that this is most likely a Persian, what the Persians figured was their territory rising up in rebellion against them.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

So we get to 490, which is Marathon. Yeah. Right. And I'll focus more on Thermopylae today, but we get to that, these two major battles, 490 and 480, well remembered, as you're mentioning, very propagandized, very motivating in terms of Greek and Hellenic ideas of themselves and also Western memory.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah, this kind of ushers in the era of classical Greece. And I think also because so many, you know, authors and thinkers and voices of the era were involved in these wars too. So they kind of create this. I think like Aeschylus was um, I don't know, he wasn't in the Battle of Marathon, but he like fought in the Persian Wars. So it's like formative of like the exactly and formative, and then it's because all these wars were so unifying for Greece, kind of bringing all these city-states together is like one of the first times that they're all like fighting against kind of a common common enemy, quote unquote. That when we think about Greece today, like this is sort of what we're thinking about.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

You know, we're thinking of this like classical era of when we're thinking of Sparta and Athens being on the same same team or same cultural world, this is like no, I think that's really important. And that's kind of an important point about why these battles keep coming up in in our collective memory of the classical world. So then, so when we get to those battles, of course, many of the Athenians and Greeks have already seen the Persian military. Um, but we can give our listeners perhaps a little sense of what Athena Athena, Zina, would have been remembering and imagining as she's kind of conjuring up the image of uh Persian onslaught into the And she's spent so much time over there.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Like we remember all of her time in the Scythian lands and working with uh you know the Scythian people, and she's you know spent her formative years uh working with these armies, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah, so she's well aware of them. So let's think about what she's imagining. So scholars believe that the Persian military that came into Greece for these battles um was between 50,000 to 200,000 troops. So a large number, much lower number than Herodotus's numbers would make us believe. I think he cites something near like two to three million troops, just too many people to actually functionally work at the time period, but a large number of troops and a much smaller najo naval contingent. The troops were pretty diverse as well as up to kind of middle-high levels of commandment. So they had Persians, but also among the infantry and commanders, people from all over the empire. So Herodotus wrote about some of the clothing and armor of the commanders. So I'll I'll tell you a little bit about it because I thought it was really interesting. So they would have seen Persian and Medes, who are both from the Iranian area, from that region, would be wearing felt caps, colored tunics over scale mail pants, and they'd be carrying wicker shields. The Ethiopian or Nubian commanders would be wearing leopard or lion skins and carrying large bows. Um the Paphlagonians, so they're from the Black Sea in modern day Turkey, wore woven helmets. So we saw all different types of dress and presentation among the commanders. And we can imagine that the infantry is also wearing a fairly wide range of armor and clothing.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

If they did if the king was at the battle, they would have also seen kind of the splendor of his uh guard, the people around him most directly. So the most elite troops were the apple bearers because they had golden apples or kind of pomads at the bottom of their spears.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Ooh. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

And then you have the infantrymen who have golden pomegranates on the spear shafts, and then a thousand horsemen and spearmen with silver pomegranates at the outskirts of that set of regiments. A very kind of splendid presentation. And the language of apples and pomegranates is so rich and feels so classical as well, or from that period.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Relishing.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

And you may have heard of the immortals. So those were part of that army as well. And there's some debate about who they were in that realm, whether they were the kind of closest to the king, or according to Michael Charles Charles, uh, whether they were more of a common trained infantry that may have been well trained, but wasn't the highest level of guards around the king. Um, but those were the forces that would have arrived in Greece at Marathon in 490, um, at Thermopylae in 480. And um, so that's where we get when we're this is what Xina is imagining at this point.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

She's like, That we you and I gotta get out of here, Gabby.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

She's like, I can't handle those gold pomegranates. I want to be bumped on the head with those. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

And it would be one thing if it was, you know, Zina and Gabby with her staff, but it's Zina and Gabby with a sprained ankle now.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah. So we're worried. Gabby's worried, but um also we're appreciating Gabby and Zina's trust for each other at this point.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

They're like very you know Did you have anything about Thermopylae you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Well, I figure maybe I'll wait just a teeny bit until we get there because she's gonna talk about that too. Okay, her plan is coming up.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Okay, so yeah, we're we're at the river momentarily. Zina's wrapping up Gabby's sprained ankle. Oh, we missed the theme.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Go back. Oh, yeah, we're not we're just there. We're right here at the theme. Ready? Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

We get Zina's smile, we're back, we're feeling good.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Oh my gosh, we're feeling just as good. It's there's passion, everything.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Um, and so, okay, so Xina's wrapping up Gabby's sprained ankle, and we learn, we learn that in the Xena verse, the Greek city-states have been teaming up against the Persians. Zina tells Phidippides to run ahead to Athens and warn them. Zina and Gabby will slow up the Persians, and then Xina and Phodipides do one of the best forearm forearm clasps. Like this is one for the for the books people for the ages.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Uh if you want to go back, you can't screenshot it on your computer anymore, but go back with your camera, take a photo of it. Can you screenshot it?

SPEAKER_01 33:10

You gotta you gotta do a lot.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

I will walk you through it in a big trip.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

But you can. Um, so he runs off to warn Athens, and we see Zina starting to get really nervous. And she was all fun in games before, but now, as we mentioned, she's got an injured Gabby and a full-scale invasion of her land to deal with. And I think the pacing of this episode is just so well done. Yeah. It's like we're all fun in games, and then it's this slow build on to Zina's shoulders. It's true. So Gabby gets up on Argo, her foot's elevated, and they hit the road.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

And we see a burning structure in the distance, the music is tense, Zina's getting squirrely, and then she comes up with a plan.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

She sure does. They're wondering what they're gonna do, and Zina says, Oh, the pass. What pass? You ask? The pass or thermopylae. Now, do you know what thermopylae means?

SPEAKER_01 34:08

No, my hot bush, a pile of hot things? What is it?

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Oh, very close. Hot gates. Oh, hot gate. Hot gates. Now, for the purposes of the battle, it's a choke point or trap along a beach near where some cliffs kind of sideline a beach and make it a very narrow passing point.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Okay, and this is the shortest route from Marathon to Athens. It's the it's the pass between the two.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Yes. So they have to go through there. Zena's like, we can trap them there. And in that, she's following the kind of strategy of the Greeks. Yeah. In ancient times. Is she following it or is she the one who did it? She's the one who did. You're right. You're right. She's it doesn't go exactly the same way in this universe, but she's the one who invented that idea.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Yeah, and you know, and that is fine. I am, you know, who knows who came up with it in the first place? Might as well have been Xena. It probably was Zena.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah. That's what we know. Did you know that Hot Gates is named that? I'm gonna get back to it. Because there's a spa there. You can go in and there's like the thermal baths. So if any of you is traveling in in Greece near Athens, and you just want to pop on over to Thermopylae.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

If you want a thermopa pop on thermopa pop, right into that hot spring.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

I recommend it. I looked up that and um the mountains in Iran and both look beautiful. All right. So I'll tell you a little bit about the supposedly historically accurate thermopylae, which is different from what we're gonna see in the episode. So we're gonna see the divergence.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

You know, I do feel I feel like either one could be true. I am 100% on board to believe Zina did this, that there was a magical woman who just Yeah, we don't have any historical record of it, but why bother?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

You know? Why bother? We got TV. Toss it, we got TV, exactly. So uh the Greeks basically they they were guarding that one stretch of land because they knew the Persians were gonna come through there. It was a huge Persian army, so the Persians were outnumbering the Greeks, and uh the Greeks were just hoping to hold the pass to make it so that the Persian army couldn't come through. And they managed to hold that stretch of land for two whole days, but according to legend and historical record, for whatever that's worth from that time period, there was a spy, Alphiltes, who told Xerxes' army about a path around the other way. Now, you know, I don't know that much about Persian knowledge of landscape in that time period. So whatever. So he told them that this I don't know how they wouldn't have figured out that there's another path, but they figured out there's another path, and they went around it and they were able to surprise the rear of the Greeks, at which point the Greek commander Leonidas, a very famous guy, called for retreat, but some, including Leonidas himself, refused to retreat. And those are the 300 memorialized in popular culture, film, comic books, the movie 300. Yeah. Of course, as well as the helots enslaved by the Spartans and about 1,000 Boeotians who remained with them as well. Okay. So despite that bravery, they were defeated by the Persians and killed, including Leonidas. Oh. So that's long story short of Thermopylae, but it has come to stand in kind of that memory, that classical memory in the Spanish army. Exactly. It's like extraordinary bravery in service of Spartan values, Spartan kind of military prowess and pride. Yeah. Classical values.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

And using it as propaganda, as like dying for your country, and it's not, yeah, never, never give up, never surrender, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Exactly. So that's what they're kind of calling forth. And and you know, it the also the positive values of duty and kind of um following through with something as well. So that's kind of the pull of it is that valor and bravery. Which is what this episode is about, too.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

You know, is like Cena doesn't so much like tie it in with valor, I guess, is more of like Gabrielle her push for the greater good and yeah, and duty and what are like what is our purpose in life if we have the capability of helping people and we can't and we choose not to help people, then what are we even doing?

SPEAKER_02 38:44

If we choose our personal interest over the greater good. So yeah, we see it reflected here in the Xenoverse in a way that we personally love. Yeah. So to give that really good. So that's the kind of background that they're playing off of. And interestingly, um Phidipides mentions some of the kind of imagery that comes out of Thermopylae too, like the image of the sky being so thick with arrows that you can't see the sun. That and the Persians were known for their like archery, their use of this technique of uh just kind of flooding the sky with arrows.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

So yeah, so scary.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

It is terrifying. I mean, the other side of this that I was thinking is very real to me is just no matter what you think about the propagandizing of these battles, it's scary to have a foreign army coming into your land and your country.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Exactly. And like in every war is just awful. You know, there's no good guy. There's no, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

If you're a villager as the military is moving through your town, it's not good. No. So that's the the situation we're in. And they're kind of trying to plan a thermopylae that is basically Xena holding the pass.

unknown 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

We know she could do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Obviously. I mean, we're like, we're watching Xena, but we know what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

It's gonna be fine. Okay. Given the cues, the kind of banter at the beginning of the episode, we know this one's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. Yeah, Gabrielle's not crying yet. It's gonna be okay. Uh so Gabby's in pain very much so. She feels like she's slowing Zina down and she wants Zina to leave her behind. But Zina knows Gabby can't fend for herself right now, and she's really worried about the Persian advanced scouts coming upon Gabby and killing her. And so then Gabby kind of brings up Zina using her superpowers from when they were in China. Uh, but Zina can't find the power right now. But she does tell us that she has a cache of secret weapons, an armory hidden in Tripolis, and a militia. And we love thinking about Zina's secret weapon stashes, just all.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Where are they all? They're everywhere. I mean, they're buried in various towns. Yeah. All over Persia, the Persian Empire for sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

And then, okay, so then now, surprise, a guy flies in screaming, holds a sword up to Zina, threatening her, but she knew he was following them, and she's not worried about this guy at all. Yeah. She jumps, spins over him, knocks him down. He's wearing like all black, some kind of metal armor, and then Zina can tell that he's a Spartan warrior.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

We find out his name is Dorian, and he said he fought at Marathon, got injured, and he ran off on a mission. His horse went lame, and he has a big wound on his back that he needs treated.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Mm-hmm. Already Zina's suspicious because she knows Spartan warriors, and we know Spartan warriors are legendarily brave. I mean, they're that's their whole thing. Their whole thing. So to have an injury on your back as you're far away from the army suggests you've done something wrong.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah, it suggests you're either you're a deserter or you're up to something no good. Zina's like, it's only a flesh wound. She dresses it, obviously. We have Dr.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Xena number two.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah, and then the great move where she stomps on his sword so it shoots up into her hand. And then she notices that there's no battle nicks on the sword either. So he's definitely she's calling it that he's a deserter and he's a disgrace to his homeland. And when she says that, Gabby tries to be sympathetic. She knows everybody feels fear.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Like, Gabby. I I wrote next to that, take a step back, Gabby. We've just been through the previous terror from sympathy.

unknown 42:32

I know.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Follows mislead here.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Just yeah, like just hold it in your heart, but you don't need to engage in any of this.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Let's see what he says before we offer that.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

So, and then Zina asks him to join them and redeem himself. And she's got a plan. Oh, yeah. So we're gonna work it out. So we cut to a Persian scout peering over a cliff. He's watching Zina and Gabby and Dorian walking along. They're chatting about the village he's from, his son. Zina mentions a waterfall 70 feet high. Huge. And the the village is famous for this waterfall. And Gabby says, You can change. You don't have to be a failure. It's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Gabby. Yeah. Um, I don't, she's we're she's delirious with pain. She's got her ankle. She's just riding on the horse. She's offering whatever it comes naturally to her at this moment. Yeah. But it's not what Dorian or Zina needs to hear, but it's okay. We're just, I also liked though that her advice was that your his son doesn't have to know about the one time he failed. And I was like, yeah, feel that shame. Bury it deep. No one's gonna know.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

No one know, but feel it and learn from it. Like, don't forget about it. You're not absolved, sir.

unknown 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Use it and move forward. So the Persian scouts are sneaking closer, and they have pretty cool helmets, like, they have some cakes. I didn't hate their outfits.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

I liked their kind of they had kind of like hat helmets. I actually didn't look up. I don't I'll have to look and see at the images of the Persian army to see if they're like related. But I enjoyed the kind of they're in some ways we see they're definitely not warlords. They're not wearing like a lot of different types of armor. They're all wearing the same kind of very organized military.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

And I yeah, I think I liked the take on on this art and this invading force because they didn't try to it, you know, it definitely didn't look stalynes or and some of the worse interpretations of the 300 story, for example, the kind of orientalizing and alienating imagery was not present in the episode. They're just other soldiers, which we appreciate.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah, they just were completely members of the Xenoverse. So oh, and then Dorian is casually asking, like, Zina, you still haven't told me your plans to stop the Persians. And she's like, Oh, haven't I? Oh, that's so interesting that you're curious about that. She's so funny. So then Dorian walks ahead of them, and Zina tells Argo to take Gabby into the woods. Zina saw some sunlight glinting on steel in the distance and knows that it's the Persians' advance party. So she gives Dorian his sword and tells him to get ready to fight. Soldiers run up, and our favorite soldier yell, get her! She's got a sword! Gabby's got a sword! She shockums them in the face. She's fighting everybody, and Dorian doesn't do anything. He's just standing there. Yeah. And then Gabby's like worried about him. So she rides up and yells at him to snap out of it.

unknown 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

But then I think she's like, I mean, at first, I guess it's true. She's I thought she was worried about Zina too, but she tells him to take refuge or fight. So she's worried that he's gonna like die, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

She's just worried about him freezing. I think she I don't think she's worried about Zina.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Yeah, I know. She knows Zina's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

She kicks him and like is like get out of here. Yeah, and then um, but then she gets hit with an arrow in the back. Maybe through her heart. It like pierced through her left shoulder. Dorian tries to help her, and he's just kind of blathering that it's his fault because it is. Yeah. And in the remaining scouts retreat, Zina's very upset about all of this. She snaps at Dorian. Uh, she goes to make a fire and be useful, tells him to go make a fire and be useful. She sits on the ground and she takes Gabby into her arms, and Gabby is being very tough through this nightmare. This is some good Gabby.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

The rest of this episode, she's like a picture of bravery and toughness. Really, she really is.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

I'm very, very impressed.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

So Dorian's doing something useless, like making a fire. I guess they need a fire, but I felt like it was also just to get him out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah. What does Zina do? She this this is an ER moment.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Oh man, we're gonna remember so anyone who learned any medical things that you don't know where you learned them from, this is probably one of those times.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

You know that you can't pull the arrow out, you gotta push it through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

So she's gotta break off the feathers off the back so they don't go through your shoulder.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Yep. Yeah. So she's like, Gabrielle, this is gonna be painful. Oh. Ready? Oh my gosh. Good bedside manner.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

We're not sanitizing anything. We're not even wiping anything off. We are Carol from ER. We are giving the delivery. I meant literally sanitizing. I mean, we're not like cleaning off anything that's going through.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Oh yeah, no, of course not. That would never happen. We're not figuratively or literally sanitizing anything right now.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Whatever's on the outside's going right through the inside. Right through. And it's going through Gabby's chest. She's screaming, but she handles it like a champ. Says she hardly felt it. She pushed it like she's pushed it all the way through her chest. Yeah. But Zina's still suspicious. She snips the arrow and she can tell it's in poison.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

No, don't go. I should have looked at poison arrows. Ugh, terrible.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

That's okay. I think we've done we've talked about poison in the past arrow.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

I'm just gonna talk about it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Poison in the past.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Poison in the past.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

That's a good song. Yeah. Poison in the past. So we cut two. So yeah. Yeah. Dr. Zina, she's heating up a stick in the fire. We know what's coming. Oh, yeah. Zina, she brings that smoldering stick over to Gabby, who is in so much pain she can't stand. She's leaning on the boulder. Zina jabs the stick into Gabby's back wound through her shirt. Oh my gosh. And we have this great practical effect of like steam rising from behind Gabby.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

We can all imagine the smell. And uh from watching 15 seasons of ER, I think she needs a saline wash. We gotta do a CBC, chem seven, portable chest, and we might need a crash cart. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 48:43

I agree a hundred percent. Gosh, I wish I had more medical terminology. I'm just I'm just reveling in the idea that cauterizing could offer any type of help. Knowing what I've seen about third-degree burns on ER, they're really tough to heal. But it's not kill some of the bait bacteria, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:04

I think she just has to stop the bleeding from I think that's it's just in the field. That's all it is. And then she's gonna maybe reopen the wound later. We didn't see that, but I would imagine she'd reopen the wound and then put her little poultice in there.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Oh wow. All right, so she's cauterizing the wound. We're wishing they had some saline wash, but you know how salt was expensive back then.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really expensive. She can't get to it. So Dorian asks if they can get the poison out, and no, it's already in her system. Cena rushes to the fire to mix some herbs in a bowl. Gabby's like chattering that she went back for Dorian because she really wanted him to see the waterfall and his kids again. This guy just sucks. We hate him.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah, he's like, I'm sorry. I guess I came up short again, huh? It's like, no one cares. Stop talking here, Dorian.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Oh my God. Yeah, so Zina's making this poultice and she says the arrow didn't hit a main artery. Um, the poulti should help until they get to triple us for an antidote serum. This is the plan. Gabby should be fine by tomorrow. Sure, easy. Like just this impending doom. Just more and more stress on Zina's shoulders.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

It's gonna be fine. We're really loving the poultice. It's bringing back my memories of watching Gladiator, which is like I remember they make a poultice there. One of his gladiator friends makes a poultice for his wound, I think. I don't remember. The classical world is full of poultices that people just grind up with their teeth. That's you gotta grind it up, spit it in, mush it up, pack it on. Is it gonna work? It's gotta be a lot of bacteria in that mouth, but apparently they work sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

You know, I feel like we were more robust back then.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

Probably had a lot of bacteria already on their skin that's just gonna eat that other bacteria. It's gonna handle a lot. All right, great. So we cut to Gabby and Argo.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Gabby's having a hard time staying on, but they're hustling to triplis. Dorian is still just pitying himself being a little terrible man. Oh, he's like mad that Zina's gonna hate him forever if Gabby dies. And Zina, do you have what Zina says?

SPEAKER_02 51:04

How I feel about you doesn't matter. You're the one who has to live with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Which is like a life lesson, man. Like how anyone feels about anyone does not matter. Agonizing about it. Yeah, she says, after today, I'll never see you again, one way or the other. Dun dun dun. Ominous, Zina. Uh, she tells him he needs sh uh she needs him to run ahead to Tripolis to get the militia together and let's uh and let the militia know that there's been a landslide at Thermopylae. Mm-hmm. And Gabby's confused. Because yeah, we know that Zina hasn't caused the landslide yet. But she's tactful. She's not saying anything, she's staying mum. Dorian says he'll do it. He's gonna make them proud, and he runs off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

And Gabby's like she jogs off into the woods looking backwards, happily, gleefully with this bad information.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

And Gabby's like, I don't get it. There's no landslide at the pass. And Zina says, There's no waterfall at Mazzola. That ain't Lake Minnetonka.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

He was lying. He was lying. It's not Lake Minnetonga.

unknown 52:11

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

So Dorian was a liar. Zina knew because he had soft hands and no Spartan would ever.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

It's like his hands were so soft.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

He must be a liar.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

You don't know anything about Sparta. You haven't been holding that stick.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Nah, this dude is a Persian spy. His back wound was from a fellow soldier to make his story convincing. And now this way don't eat they don't even have to make a landslide. Which I'm obsessed with.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

It's like what nice, so efficient.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

None of it was even true. Zina just lied about it.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Sometimes constraints can really be helpful for your creativity.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah. And Zina, I mean, she's gonna pick up everything anyone puts down. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

We're feeling confident. We're loving this so far. Yeah, we're back. We're back on board. The impending doom is lessening from our hearts. Yeah. Zina and Gabby continue on to Tripolis for the medicine and the militia. We get to this burned out, empty village, and the militia of Tripoli have razed the town, leaving nothing for the Persian armies. And the militia isn't even there. So Zina's kind of poking around the physician's hut and it's starting to get she's starting to get really stressed.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Yeah. Everything she was expecting to find the antidote there. Yeah. She was expecting to find a militia, weapons, everything they needed. Yeah. But right now everything is burnt to a crisp. Smoldering apothecary pots.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Lucy Lawless like walking around the burned-out apothecary was like it's like the exact opposite feeling I get when I'm watching Star Trek and Dr. Crusher is like using the medical props because I so fully believe her. Yes. And I did not believe that Xina was actually looking for this. I don't know what direction the game was going to be.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Until I think Gabby lets us know that the serum's gone.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah. Yeah. Well, because Zina comes back and she has like the bottle that clearly had the serum. And Zina's just like, okay, that's it. We're dropping this whole Greco-Persian war thing. We're gonna ride directly to Thessaly and we're getting you medicine. And Gabby's starting to look pretty awful. She's coughing.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

She's got really convincing, like gray circles under her eyes, and she's very like dewy.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

She actually looks great, but she looks sickly at the same time. Like a very good sickly look.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Yeah, we love a sickly heroine.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

So she's like, no, we promised the people of Athens that we would slow down the army. And if we don't stall them until the Athenians can prepare, then Athens is gonna fall. But didn't they do this already with the message about Thermopylae? Isn't that stalling them? Well Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

But they were also gonna stall them at they were gonna stall them at Thermopylae, like do the landslide, and then direct them to Tripolis where the militia would be waiting and they'd have like another battle there.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Got it, got it, got it. Okay, okay, okay. And then we're at this point, we're kind of assuming that Gabby has like one day before the poison's gonna kill her. Yeah, and then and then as this is happening, we can hear the horses of the Persian cavalry. We see them coming over the ridge, ton of riders, Zina and Gabby and Argo run and hide. And like and when Zina's running and hiding, you know that she's a little stressed out.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

Yeah. There are some really great, like the horses' hooves are sounding very intimidating. They're thundering across the landscape. They're scary. And there's some great short shots of like beautiful horses just galloping along. And you're struck by like how much fun it is to watch like real horses on TV running. It is fun. We're enjoying that moment. Horse lovers among us. We're like, oh, look at those horses. And then it's also like, ah, it's a terrifying army.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

It's beautiful, it's frightening. It's everything at work. We're feeling all the feelings. So okay, we go and we're hiding in an old shack now. We're across a wooden bridge. Inside, there are just bags of grain. Zina locks the door behind them, and Gabby lies down on some of these sacks. And Zina gets all of her weapons out from their hiding places. And this is where they've been hiding for three years, but they're still sharp. Things are looking good. Good storage techniques there. Yeah, good storage. Gabby's coughing, and then she's like, okay, I got a last request. Like, I know I'm gonna die. And if Gabby doesn't survive, she wants Zina to go save herself. It's like, as is.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

I know it's never gonna happen. But we're also like remembering how what all that Gabby's been through recently, and it's been a rough time, and she's tired and she's really sick, and she's like loving Zina.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

And so we're also like with that, with her in that, and also like Zina's never gonna let you die. So we're just we're gonna put our faith in all of that.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

And Zina's like, hey, I'm not gonna promise that. And Gabby's like, I don't think we're gonna make it out of this one. And pending doom. Oh my gosh. So later that night, Zina's marching around the perimeter hunting for herbs, and she finds the Persian war camp, and there's a lot of guys. There's like 300, 400 dudes.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

She gets back to Gabby, who's like coughing by the fire, looking even worse than she did before. Definitely has a fever. They talk about the camps and the soldiers. Gabby's joking about having the element of surprise. And Zena's like actively nervous. She's like, This is the main cavalry. This is their best warriors. She didn't see any pomegranates, but maybe, you know, a sick.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

She knows they're there.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Gabby's like joking.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Yeah. That she this is like a diversion about her boot that got ripped. Yeah, really funny.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

And then she coughs up blood.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Oh no, deadly cough. Where's Dr. Robbie?

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Oh, Dr. Robbie. The arrow grays her lung, and she has less time than they thought. They're gonna need to intubate. Oh my gosh. Quick, get that crash cart going. Oh, get a crash cart. Bring some own egg. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Hang a bag. Wide open. So we cut to maybe an hour later, and Zina's making a litter to carry Gabby and get her out of there with some like highs-on sticks. She made it so fast. She was crafted. Great ladder litter. Gabby's like, I I'm not, I don't want to go. I want you to do your duty for the country. And like, this is you know, the moral dilemma we always face, you know, for the greater good or for the people we love. What would you do, Haley?

SPEAKER_02 58:32

Oh my gosh. Obviously, I would save you. Aw, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

I'd be like, sorry, sorry, Grease. But we'd be in it together, just like Gabby and Zina. So we would actually save Greece and each other at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

Yeah. I would do exactly what Zina did.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

And I'd be as good at it. She would come into my body and just do whatever she would do. And then I would be happy at the end.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah. Wonderful. So good. Aw. So Gabby's throwing Zina's lessons back at her. She's like, the greater good is what matters. There are things worth dying for, things that mean more than our own small lives. And it like it does feel a little like propaganda, but also Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

But it's also, I mean, we probably also like believe it to some extent.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

Like you have to do things that are not in your personal interest to like it just, I guess it depends on like what these languages being applied to. Is this to like the democratic ideals, or is this to like just the people, you know, who will be murdered if we don't help them out? Yeah, whatever. Right. Okay. So Xena's like, no, your existence matters more than the greater good. And she refuses to promise to save Greece over Gabby.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Sorry, Greece. Which is not a big patriot. She doesn't care about particular people or particular places. No. And I think she's making the right choice. But I love that Gabby is also the other thing though, like in this choice is sticking to like her word. Like she gave the word. Other people are counting on her word. And like she promised that she would do this. And so Gabby's in it with her and doesn't want to be saved. She wants to be like a partner in this.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Yeah. And it's also like if she's gonna die anyway, then what's the point of not helping? So I get it. Okay, so Zina's we cut to Zina just carrying chains. She's just like moving stuff around this shack. Gabby's under the covers. Zina's stirring a big boiling cauldron. Uh-huh. Uh she looks over and she sees a jar and she kind of attempts her like telekinetic powers, but there's no use. Then she kicks and breaks the jar, similarly to when she was doing her training with Laom Ma. And she like couldn't get it. She's so frustrated. So Gabby wakes up distressed, nightmares, a fever, and now she's delirious. She's thinking she's back in Potadia and she's begging Zina to take her along and to teach Gabby everything she knows. So we're kind of back to the initial moment that led to this impending death, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

Right. And she like reminds us, she's like, I have the gift of prophecy. I can be very valuable to you, which we don't remember at all. But like, no. We're thinking maybe this is something that's like part of her.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Well, I I read a I was like, what is going on? So I found a Reddit thread. And then they're talking about this character quality being in an early draft of the Sins of the Past script, but not the final script. So it's like someone's headcanon that was put into a binder and handed to these writers.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Interesting. They're like, we haven't been watching, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

But I guess she has the gift of prophecy. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

And yeah, not mad, just you know, confused about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

But it's also, it could also like if it weren't a simple mistake, which it is, but like it could also be just a delirious emergence of her like prophetic delirium in this moment, too. Yeah. So we're playing along. We're with it. Yeah, we're with it. She's sickly and delirious and we're worried, and it's scary for Zina because she's obviously not present in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Yeah. Her brain's not working. And then she's like, I want to be like you to Zina. And Zina says, And I want to be like you. And then she pushes a gosh, full circle. Okay, so now we go to the next morning. Zina's batting down the hatches. Gabby wakes up in a panic. She's sweating. She's got a fever. The walls are rattling. The army's coming. Uh, Zina stands to fight them all. Uh, soldiers break through the door. Zina's slashing and bashing, fighting and spiting. She's killing so many guys, she's bloodthirsty, and she slices a guy's throat with her chakra. Like, we went from zero to 150. A dude breaks through the ceiling, lands behind Zina, and slits her throat. And we're freaked out.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

We're like, we were in control land, everything was fine. Now what happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

But luckily Gabby, yeah, Gabby was just dreaming. She was sleeping. It was a nightmare. Zina's fine. It's still nighttime. Zina's sleeping next to her, and Gabby caresses her hair and falls back asleep. They just love each other. Oh. So we cut to Zina's like up and pacing. Mm-hmm. Gabby's like uh so sick. Zina's like, okay, plans changing again. We're getting out of here right now. We gotta go. But Gabby insists there's like no other way. It's too late. But Zina's doesn't accept defeat. There are always choices.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

And she also says she's done paying for her past mistakes, which is like, all right, we're on to new Xena time. We're on to new Xena time.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

And I feel like she's yeah, I feel like she's even the scales of dead bodies on either side, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

She's like She's finally getting to that point where she really has moved through hell. Yeah. And now she, I mean, there's like a strange new solidity between in their relationship, Zina and Gabby. Like they know each other better, they've been through more. And I love the way, as you're saying, the dialogue brings that out. We see it in the way they talk to each other and their comfort together. And we see also Zina's not agonizing over things. She's kind of making deliberate decisions. It's just they're two, they're two bad choices to make.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Yeah, and like the shame that um, you know, Dorian felt. Like Zina also feels a shame, but you gotta, you know, it doesn't matter. Like you you feel the shame and you work through it, and she doesn't deserve forgiveness for anything she's done, but she, you know, deserves to she doesn't have to live.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

She's gonna move forward anyway and do what she thinks is right. So she's her responsibility now is Gabby. Yeah, but then Gabby's like, don't do that. Like I'm actually a partner with you too. And she says a long time ago, I accepted the consequences of our life together.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

And it might one day come to this. It has. I mean, she's not afraid to die. And she's so I mean, this is like a whole new moment for her, too. She's not waffling, she's not wondering if she should have gone in a different path. She's like there and facing it with full awareness of this like risk that they take together that she's ready for. Yeah, she's totally present in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:21

She's not, you know, wishing for anything different. She's just facts are facts, she might die right now. And then the conversation turns really romantic. Zina's just telling her how brave she is.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

And you know, maybe it's her destiny, they'll die together. And then Zina says, even in death, I'll never leave you. And I didn't get it till like the second watch through that Xina was planning to die if Gabrielle dies. Like I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

And it's like really um Yeah, I watched it twice too, and I think it did take me to the second time to be like, Oh yeah, she's ready for for death. And you can see that in the next scene because she goes out to the field. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Oh, but and then before the next scene, they intertwine fingers, and then I think if it's Made to date, they definitely would have like kissed at this moment. For sure. Oh, it's really sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

It's like the most like depth of their relationship that we've seen so far. And it's so intensely, I don't know, committed to each other. Oh, so committed.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

Mm-hmm. Now we're outside. And then Zena's telling Argo to run away. Mm-hmm. And Argo doesn't want to go, and Zena's yelling at her. And I just hate this so much. I despise it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

She's gotta get her to go because she's she doesn't know if she's gonna live or die in this battle. She's ready to die, and she doesn't want Argo to get hurt. Yeah. And poor Argo runs off into the forest.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

I know we love you, Argo. We go back inside. Uh Zina's boiling some oil. And then she's dragging this cauldron across the hut and she's so strong. Can you imagine dragging a cauldron full of boiling oil?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

I would have gotten so burned. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

And she looks over at Gabby, lying so still, unblinking. Is she dead? No, but she's moved beyond pain. Zina's getting ready to make another poultice. And Gabby's like, no more poultices. They're just a distraction from dragging your cauldrons around.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

She's like, you gotta keep dragging the cauldron. Don't make a poultice for me. Zena's like, I can chew and drag at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

She is, but actually she's being super romantic. And she tells Gabby that she's her source. When I reach down inside myself and do things I'm not capable of, it's because of you. Don't you know that by now? Ugh. And then she carries Gabrielle up to the top of the Gabriel. Oh my gosh, did you have the Gabrielle posture during that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

I was like, who is that? Flopping. Hair down, arms down, just entirely limp. Carried up the ladder.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Good. And then Zina positions this boiling pot uh by the top of the ladder so Gabby can shove it onto any guys who try to come up there. But and again.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

So don't worry, I carried it across the floor. You can push this boiling oil over.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

But wasn't Gabrielle like anti-murdering people, anti-boiling people to death?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

We had a whole thing about how mad she was about killing people. She doesn't mind if they suffer horribly and die like two weeks later.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

Yeah. It's self-defense. Okay, and then Gabby's remembering her prophetic dream. She tells Ina to watch out for the man with a double-edged sword. And then she apologizes for China. Aww. I guess this episode was maybe supposed to come out after the debt. Or I think it I think I read on whoosh.org that it was written and shot right after the debt series.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

Okay. So that's why they're pulling this all back.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Yeah. Yes. Okay. So then Xena doesn't care about the past right now. Gabby's her best friend or family. They love each other. They start hearing the horses, and the Persian army is coming. So many horses, so many strong boys showing up. Commercial break. Take a sip of my coffee.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

Take a sip. Take a couple sips from your Xena mug, your figural mug. My Xena figural mug has cooled down to below room temperature, below body temperature. Same. Probably at room temperature. But it's still quite comfortable. Highly recommend. Her skin is so smooth. Polished. Glazed porcelain. Alright, so we hear the cavalry, and they are pretty scary. They're galloping along. I again love the real horses. I wrote it down twice, same episode watching. I just loved them.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

We love those horses. And Zina's peeking through the slats in the wall. And then she jump spins backwards to really, again, showcase her skills and talent and what she's what we're in for.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Yeah. I love the casual backflip. She's like, I could just go down the ladder, but I'm just gonna do a one, it's not a double axle or anything. It's just a one flip down. Yeah. Well she's getting my legs up, my head down, and then my legs back down and my head up.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:57

I mean, she's gotta loosen up for what's coming.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

Loosen up. It's true. It's kind of like just a stretch, a warm-up for her.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

And then she throws open the doors, similar to Aragorn in Lord of the Rings. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She's throwing those open. She uvulates. She's scaring them. She's and they send a wave of arrows at her, and she bolts the door and she's getting ready.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

The walls are rattling just like Gabby's dream.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

There's like light pouring in. It's kind of terrifying, like alien abduction type of like traumatic memory.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

Yeah, it's like very Samuraimi. Like, really, we're in a horror moment. Warriors are breaking in, and Xena sets off all her booby traps. She spits fire on them. She chakram kills so many guys. She does the chakram throat slit that Gabby saw in her dream. She takes a flail. She's killing guys. Oh, yeah. We love the flail.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

She was she pulled out out of the armory. She's like, I I could use this today. She sets it down.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

She's flailing around. Flailing. The double-edged sword guy jumps down behind her, but then she jump spins behind him, kills him, throws the flail into the ceiling, hangs from it, and is just roundhouse kicking everyone. It's so great. She's just, yeah, kicking everyone's heads, running around. Gabby is like crawling towards the boiling cauldron as she's hanging, and like these dudes are trying to like hang from her boots, and Zina's like, do it, do it. And then Gabby shoves the cauldron onto the guys, and Zina's hanging, so she doesn't get any of the boiling oil. Brilliant. Brilliant. Totally well timed.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

She's like, I know if I have this flail, I could probably get it to the roof. And then if Gabby puts the oil down, it's gonna work just fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

The plot's all there. Yeah. Then she she jumps up, bursts through the ceiling to attack everyone on the roof. One guy slashes her arm, and through the hole in the ceiling, she sees Dorian about to stab Gabby. Oh my god. And he's honking. He's being extra villainous.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

He's like, I told you I'd be back with help. Really? Hate this guy. I know. I was like, you were so useless before. Like the amount of verbal just waste in his previous dialogue, and now he's gonna try to impress us with a catchy. Oh, catchy quip, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

Just new, bro. Zina's gonna kill you. And she does. She hops down, beats him up, more booby traps. She's killing everybody. Then got some great like arrow catching. Oh yeah. Well, right now, so the fight takes a turn. So this is like hour seven of the pit where everyone is exhausted and starving but has to push through. And then we get Xina's Slavic fight song. And you can just feel like the adrenaline rush coming. I mean, like as a kid watching this, even now, I was just like, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:41

Oh my gosh. I don't even know where I wrote it, but I was like, oh my gosh, the like Grecian women singing were ready for this moment. She's got like a giant pole that she's like jumping from one guy's head to the other head with like a great like. I was like, Hailey's gonna love this moment. Loved that moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

Yeah, and then she, you said it before, but I'm gonna say it again. She grabs a guy by his front collar, and then as she has him, she catches an arrow that was aimed for her own head. She takes that arrow, stabs the guy with it. It's Dorian, is it? Yes, it was Dorian. Yeah, yeah. And that was the poison arrow, and she's gonna just let him die. And then she's fighting more people, and as she's fighting them, she's watching him crawl around for his stinking life. Oh, and she's like, she's being quippy, but like I think what made this so like visceral and real too is it she wasn't making any like comic book statements or like yelling at anyone or saying jokes at people. She's just like taking care of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

Well, that's where we have the Grecian women in the background. We're like, we're all in a trance. We're we're become berserkers.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

We're just totally we're fully in it, and it's just so everything is just so thought out and just absolutely taken care of. Okay. So she watches Dorian, he crawls over, he finds an antidote bottle, she grabs it from him, and as she has it, she's still fighting because these guys are still coming. Oh, yeah. And then finally, finally, finally, they pause, and then the guys are all bruised and battered, and she has her sword like out to them, and she says, Go home! There are thousands more like me, which is what a statement. What a lie.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

I know there's no one else like you, Zina. No, but I love the Persian soldiers.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

They're like, Yeah, come on. Well, I mean, realistic, they're like, we don't need to die for this.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Like, we don't but they're so they're they were fighting for their lives minutes ago. They they don't run or anything, they just kind of saunter out. They're like, come on, back to the horses. I loved it. I was 100% on board.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:43

I'm totally I I don't think if I was in the room and was supposed to be fighting Xena after I saw her kill every single commander.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

Oh yeah, I would have deserted for sure. But I would have run deserted.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha. Okay, and so then they all retreat. Zina's done. She jump flips up to Gabby with the antidote, and then like one final guy kind of comes out and she just kills him really quickly. Finishes them off. And then she rubs the antidote on Gabby's lips. It's Jesse.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:14

She's doing very satisfying, like, here, touch it to your lips. She wakes up a little bit. Gabby wakes up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

When is Lucy and Narnia dying?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:21

Well, she wasn't. Remember, she has that teeny tiny bottle of healing potion that she goes around and gives all the soldiers after the battle in the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

Oh, yeah. I wasn't as much of a Narnia girly, but I I feel like my most of my love from it is just basking in your love of Narnia.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:38

And we had the BBC taste. We had recorded from PBS the BBC version of the Lion Light and the Ward. I remember it well. Lucy gets a very satisfying little bottle of cordial. It's a little golden bottle. It's just cordial or is it an antidote? Well, it's an antidote. I call it cordial because it seems satisfying to me to call it that, but it's an antidote or whatever, like healing thing that Aslan gives her. Oh, okay. And she puts a dot on everyone's lips, and then Aslan's like, more for the others. So this is what Zina's doing now, only just for Gabby.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

Gabby wakes up, she thinks they died. Zina gives her like more antidote, and Gabby gives her like shit about the guys not being that tough. And then Gabby's worried Zina's hurt, but she's fine. She's like a little cut. She's okay. She just needs to sleep for a bit and then get out of it. Can you imagine how tired Zina must be?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:33

Oh my God. She's been like freaked out because her friend and love of her life is like dying for several days. She's been marching, like getting place to place. Yeah. Arno's been carrying Gabby. And then she fought like 400 soldiers, something like that. Yeah. 400. Killed at least 300.

unknown 1:16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

She's backflipping. She's not like holding a bow and arrow for most of it. No, no. Most of it is backflipping. Yeah. And like no food. They haven't eaten anything. And she's been a little bit more. When she was making the poultice, I was like, oh, that's smart. Zina's eating. And then I was like, oh no, she's not. She's making a poultice. She's making medicine. She's busy.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:14

So she's she needs a little sleep. And then she lays down next to Gabby and is clearly about to pass out. And then Gabby tells Zina that she still owes her a pair of boots.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

Ah, hilarious. We love it. Oh great.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

Solid ending. Like I felt for me watching this the first time, it was kind of hard to get into at first because with the bittersweet, I just like it was hard to do. It was a big transition. But on the second watch, I just thought it was just so great having Xena be tough and cool and smart. And I'm glad Gabby's okay. But it was nice to have her like dealing with her own thing that was like a common problem between them that they had to kind of solve. And I love just focusing on Xena.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

I know. I think it is. I was looking it up too, and I think it's like a fan favorite episode for many of the reasons that we love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

I just loved it, I think I was immediately relieved that it was a sunny Greek, like countryside day in the beginning, and that they were like doing the usual dynamic of like Gabby's learning something. Zina's kind of exasperated, but also happy. And they were like back to like a friendly common balls relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

Totally, totally. And I loved the um, like we're we had been in like complete fantasy metaphysical land, and now we're kind of rooted back in Greek history. And I just like love this rewriting of history that like Zena is responsible for defeating the Persians in the first Greco-Persian War. Like the Battle of Marathon was pivotal and showing that Athenians didn't need Spartans to fight their battles for them, and this kicked off the rise of like the classical Greek era, which we talked about before, uh, which continues to influence Western society today. And so, like, centering Xena as the hinge of this like key point in European and Mediterranean history is just like so freaking satisfying. And like we never do this with female characters. Like, you know, so often we see this with like male characters, even just like talking about history. And as a kid, I didn't like think anything of it because I just loved her so much. And as an adult, I'm just like so deeply thankful to everyone involved in the show for helping us like question historical authorities. And like, yeah, in your myths, maybe it was like 300 dudes at a mountain pass, but in my myths, it was Xena, you know? And like, you know, and like it's all mythology. Like, we should question all things, and just like normalizing women being badass, and I don't know. I just I just love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:46

Like, I still I love the historical process and the kind of like the reliance on you know, whatever it might be, archaeology and documentation.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

But I obviously I don't think Zina actually was, I don't think Zina's a real person. I don't think she was there, but I think there is something too like propaganda and religion and mythologies are all used to further political, political gain and to further uh power, the management of power from certain people. And stories are really powerful. And I think it's yeah, so interesting to you to center a strong female character in such an important historical space and the larger conversations that brings up of like why couldn't they? Yeah, that's that's yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:31

Yeah, I think that's really important. And I think yeah, having um Xena and this strong warrior female character, even in a fictional scenario, broaches these questions about women in military exercises or military campaigns in ancient Greece, for example. It brings up all and that's kind of what we've been doing, like all of these questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:54

Yeah, and even like what you were talking about in the Persian army and how um just so ethnically diverse like the Persian Empire was, and how when the like kind of military propaganda we see, and even what's happening like in America today, of their trying to turn you know the military into this like homogenized, like white straight male thing. But it's not, you know, like no society is just a homogenous white supremacist situation, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:18

Right, whether it's your own history or the history of the Persians and you're the Greeks, you know, you can't simplify it into something that's homogenous. Yes, yeah. I love that about this episode. And Zina does that so well in so many of these like historical or mythological episodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:36

It's amazing. It's just uh it uh whatever every episode we do just blows my mind about this show.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

Yeah, and I just I mean, honestly, I just really love the dynamics of this episode and the back and forth and the kind of yeah, like stability of Zina and Gabby having come through all of that from the previous sequence of kind of despair and confusion.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:04

Exactly. It's so authentic to like human relationships of you know, we are stronger when we go through things. If we choose to you know stay together and love each other, then we'll all be stronger for it. It's so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:16

There's so much um let's go through our questions because I feel like Zina taught us a lot today.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:22

Interesting. Okay, what did what do you think Zina learned?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:25

What did Zina learn? I think Zina learned that Gabby really is a partner now, not just an apprentice. Interesting. Even though she's like sickly and ill this whole time, her commitment is not like counter to Zina's. She's on the same team. What do you think Zina learned?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

I felt like they uh I I didn't get that as strongly. Um, I felt like she really, I don't know if she so much learned, but she made us aware that she'd kind of forgiven herself and she was moving past and that she was making amends for the lives that she's like ruined as a warlord. But I feel like that wasn't necessarily in this episode that she learned that. It was just vocalized. Yeah, I like that too. And I feel like what do you think she taught us?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:10

Oh my gosh, what didn't she teach us? She taught us a lot of medical skills. She taught us so many medical skills. She taught us if we have a deep penetrating wound, you can cauterize it. With an old stick, whether it's gonna work or not.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:26

And make sure you're doing it through the clothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:28

Through the clothing, don't remove the clothing. It's fine. Um, she taught us that she's always gonna be there for us and she loves us.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:36

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:37

I don't know. I think she taught us she told us she'll always be there for Gabby. Yeah. We feel like we are Gabby sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:44

Yeah, because I feel like at at the certain point sh there was no other option. You know, she couldn't have gotten Gabby out of there into safety. So it just became the point of she had to she had to fight.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

And hope someone had an antidote.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

Yeah. Well, I and I think I think she did teach us with Gabby that you can get through those very extraordinarily challenging conflicts and build something more meaningful out of them. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 1:24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:18

And what matters are the people we love.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:20

We love everybody that we love. Yeah, we love people.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:24

Who's your extra Oscar?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:26

Oh, great question. Oh, it's the uh Persians when they're ready to go. They're like, we're ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:35

All right, all right, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:36

I actually have my stuff packed. I'll just hop on the horse and go. We're ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:41

Persian retreat. Okay, that was good. Mine was I like the Persians when they first showed up and they're like, get her. Yeah, that's a you know me. Classic. So their entrance and their exit. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:54

We love when they come in, we love when they go.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

Perfect job, Persian. Okay, Sybil Award. Not not really groundbreaking this this season, this episode. So Douglas Camo was Dorian. He played Sullace in season two's The Execution. Execution. And we'll see him again in season four. Unmemorable. Yeah. And Nick Kemplin as uh Phodipides. He hasn't played anyone else in the Xenoverse proper, but in his first IMDB role, uh, it was in Hercules and the Amazon women, and he played the village heckler.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:32

Oh so I kind of want to give it to him. Yeah, I enjoy a heckler just as much as the next gal. More even.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:46

I like that one. Um, who's your scene queen?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:49

Scene queen? Hmm. I don't know. Do you have one? I haven't thought of my scene queen yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:54

Argo. Argo when she had to leave.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:57

Yeah, stole the scene for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:58

Yeah, and yeah, I mean, it's not like our technical uh definition of a scene queen, but I that scene was just like Oh my gosh, heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:08

She got me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:09

But there there weren't a lot of other um just right one-shot actors. Yeah. So for me it's Argo. Mm-hmm. That seems good. And then no Star Trek, no L O T R. Who's your Gabbies? Give me your Gabbies, spread them out.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:24

Oh my gosh, I gotta look for all the hearts on my pages.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:29

I think Renee is so good at playing sick and dying. Um I think when she was like great, I'm not afraid to die, sounded, I think it was like an exact line, a little woman, especially the movie with Beth when Beth's talking to Joe on her deathbed and she's like, I'm not afraid to go. You're all always going off ahead. I don't know why you want to leave. Now I'm going first. Like oh you remember that. Remember that? You remember it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:56

Oh my gosh. I mean, I loved so many. Do you want to know a couple of them? Yeah, throw them around. Why not? I oh my gosh. I just left so many. I loved when I did honestly, I liked when she was like trying to convince Xina about the greater good. And she was like, hmm, you've gotta do the first thing is the greatest good. You taught me that because I felt like she was holding Zina to what Zina like her deeper desire.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:27

Yeah, she was being also being completely Zina's conscience and just like yeah, holding her to what Zina has said and what Zina's ethics are in these moments of crisis, which is why we need people in our lives who have known us forever. Yeah. Like it's really important to have long term friendships and relationships to be like, oh, that's actually not who you are. Even you're you're really scared right now, and the choices you're making aren't your aren't who you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:51

So I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:52

Yeah. I loved that. And I loved her joking about the boots as she was had her little cough, and she was like My chest feels so heavy. It's occurred to me that this is just a clever diversion to make me forget about my boots. I do love that. She's just so great. She's funny the whole way through. She is funny and heartfelt. Oh, and so many. Those are the tops, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:18

I I also really loved at the beginning when she's learning the jump flip. And I have like a memory as a kid, I think, of this being the first time of like recognizing that there was character development. So I was like, oh, she's learning something. Like she is learning something that Zina knows how to do. These skills are attainable. And it's also just like an attest to I just I think about this all the time. Like Zina is one of the only like superhero quote unquotes in like pop culture that is like self female superheroes, it's like self-made. Yeah. Like like thinking, and we talked about this before, but like, you know, what Buffy's superhero powers were totally unconsensual. You know, it was like some dudes just gave these upon her. Right. Think of like Jessica Jones, also. She's like, her origin story is just like horror, non-consensual things that happened to her. And Zina's like, no, I saw everything that's around me. I'm going to put myself in a room with people who are better than me. I'm going to learn their skills, and I'm going to keep learning skills and I can till I can take care of myself and everyone around me.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:18

And that is just, what else could you want in a hero? Or just so far?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:23

I also loved when Gabby said, you'll work it in when Zina's trying to say that she wasn't going to hold it against Gabby.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:35

It's just so funny because it's such a such a simple thing and just implies so much in their relationship of like just every other like biting, hilarious conversation we've had.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:44

And Zina will work it in. She will. It just says so much about like, yeah, their comfort with each other, their like sense of humor, the like slight resentment. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:56

And then being able to um the slight resentment, but being able to say it out loud. Yeah, internalize it.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:01

It's like not gonna fester because she's our she she just said it, it's out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:04

It's so healthy. Ugh. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:08

Well, if you all like what we do here, you can like, subscribe, follow the podcast, leave a review, share episodes with your friends. We have totes and shirts and mugs for sale. All of this you can find at inatimeofancient gods.com. And stay tuned for our next episode, Forgiven. So get ready for a Y2K Starlit to step on the scene. Someone who may be familiar once you watch 15 seasons of ER. Oh, yeah. So my gosh. I can't believe it. All right, guys. So anything else, Haley? You good?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

I'm good. Okay. This is a great episode. This is my favorite Gabby episode so far. Just judging by the number of hearts. It's totally I've forgotten every other thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:59

I love this episode. I love this episode too. But it's um, I don't know, it doesn't sit in my heart the same way.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:05

I don't know. We're gonna have to make like a ranking of Gabby episodes sometime. Oh, cool. Put it on the list. See if we can remember.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:12

Fun list of for once we get to season seven. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:16

17 years from now.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

Great. That's okay. Okay, guys. Thank you so much. We love you. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

When there's only two of you on stage, you've got to use a lot of puppets to make it work. Oh, you really do.